I highly doubt someone would put their beloved fixie - one that they spend $4-500 for a set of new Deep V rims with sealed bearing hubs and other personal and custom add ons.
Cyclists don't do shit like that- even to make a point.
Would it seem reasonable to put a babystroller in front of a speeding car, or a wheelchair? why do automatically think the 3 or 4 cyclists willingly threw their bikes under the car and sacrificed their rides?

Are you that stupid to believe what you see on the tee vee?

I suppose the 880collapse was a terrorist training exercise by a depraved drug dealing ex con as well?

I stand correct on CM being a "spontanous ride" rather than an organization.
Perhaps you should MAKE it an organization. at least then people can be held accountable for their actions on the street.
Any group that does spontanous actions without knowing it's own membership, or the people involved runs the risk of being a mob, and not a "group"
I am glad we are openly talking about what i think is a very important subject and I appreciate your candor.
however, unlike amy I don't think you very credible at all. this is not meant to be a parsonal attack. you may very well be a ultra credible person. I am addressing only your words here and their tone.


you miss my point entirely and I see you totally sidestep the spiritual and political content of my critique.

you make no mention of the children being abused. yes. abused. un;less the only offenses here that count are the ones that insult you personally.

You make not mention of the man who ripped off a windshield wiper and then in a clearly two-faced display of event staging, went and got the kids.

NO. there is no excuse for the people who act inhumanely. not the elderly, nor any of you. it would appear that you hold one standard for yourself, and another entirely different for anyone who falls on the wrong side of a confrontation with CM.


I have background here. I have studied politically incendary groups, cult psych, political manipulations, zealots, and the legal process for around 30 years.
Staged events do not have to be planned. you have only to look at the bush administration's shameful use of hurricaine Katrina to see this in action. like those examples the incident was a staged event based on happenstance. I also have two other people telling me another side of the story entirely.

you stated: "it is inexcusable to knowingly and intentionally drive your vehicle into human beings"
Your argument would be strengthened of you appeared care the slightest bit about the toddlers, who are pimped and abused in this exchange by someone who has two faces. you show the same self-victimizing and emotionally based thinking as the crowd did that day. which is, the you were the innocent victims of an evil old man. I didn't see that at all.
after studying riot footage, war footage, political debates, street violence, assassination footage, and endless reels, clips, and photos for longer than you have been alive, and also having been invloved in leftist politics for 30 years, I think I can spot bullshit and manipulation when witness it.

threats? what threats? this is another example of melodramatic self-serving and self victimizing behavior. not to mention being a perfect example of exactly the kind of issue manipulation I am addresing


so: what I get so far:
1: only offenses against CM count, and offenses against anyone else, no mattter what the situation, including children who are little more than infants, on the part of people who are publicly and openly acting in a dishonest way, are perfectly fine.
If this is so, than your movement is doomed. seriously. no real progressive movement has ever survived such a blatant contradiction in it's own claimed values. All are now only reminants or ruins of their previous incarnations.

Look. I am a leftist. born one and will die one. some people in my family died for that, and died for your right to protest in the relative safety of berkeley. we were maligned, lied about in the press, attacked, spied on by Edgar Hoover (look up the word COINTELPRO) and many of my family did extensive prison sentences for your right to assemble. so yes. I have a big time reason for questioning your motives, and your methods.


as much as I would love to agree with the statement "being white has nothing to do with it" the statement smacks of the same denial of class and color that my parents had to combat just to remain together in the 50's and 60's. it smacks of the same privillege and the same "I am above it all" mentality that caused the radical movements in Berkeley and Oakland to be stirred to action in the first place. Denial is not a pretty sight coming from a so-called "progressive". race always matters, as does class. your attempt to sidestep this critical issue reveals yet more cracks in youur position.

OK. bottom line? ths may suprise you. I believe you. I believe you saw what you saw, and that it affected you they way it did.
I also believe you are being manipulated knowingly or unknowingly, that you have lost a god deal of critical thinking in this exchange, and that you, just like so many examples I have seen before, are acting out of mob psych.

what I find interesting, is not only your apparant inability to address the children issue, and why people would feel the need to lie about the incident. this does not speak well. about the van hitting one of the bicyclists? I am convinced that this did happen. that he crunched through severall bikes with no provocation? please. grow up.
I have ridden my bike for 25 years and never had anything bad happen. why is it that so many CM goes that confrontation and violence occurs?

your entire argument is stdestepping critical points, and showing that the only people you care about (and this includes children) are yourselves.

Luckily, you are not the sole representative for CM.
I do not mean to insult you. seriously. but your logic is flawed, your motives questionable, and your tone promethean.

I think people who think like you may be a part of CM's growing image problem.
There it is. please address some of these issues? or not. it is becoming apparant that a lot of CM'ers only sees what they want to see.